GPS Question

[wildfowler]

Hi Gang

I have a couple of quick questions regarding a GPS.
Four of us are travelling from Kent UK to germany/Holland in next couple of weeks for a long weekend on four seperate bikes. We currently dont have a GPS between us. Despite riding for sometime and around the UK and also riding in France/Belgium I have never had a GPS for the Bike.

Question's are.

TomTom Rider or the Zumo. Do they come with a mount that I can attach straight to the bike?

Do I need to get a converter to plug directly into the powelet socket on my F700GS?

I am not sure which one to get but would appreciate any help

regards

[DWS]

I've moved your thread to the GPS section Simon ... you'll likely get more responses here.

[FrankV]

Yes, the TT Rider and the Zumo will be delivered with a mount. However, to attach this mount to your bike might need some specific solution. This does not come with the package, of course!

I do not know for the TT, but the motorcycle mounts of the Zümo's do not have a connector, only +/- 12 V (red / black) wires. You need to connect these wires to a specific connector for using the socket on the bike (called "Powerlet", "Hella" or "BMW" connector), it's not the same one as for the cigarette lighter in a car....

[Octupi]

I have the TT and wired it directly to the battery. The mount always has power and I just take the TT off when I'm not riding. It has not affected the battery at all and I prefer it this way. It came w/ a mount that I connected to a ram mount.

[TelemarkTumalo]

Simon, there are many options out there, and both the Tom Tom and the Garmin can be hardwired, or use the accessory socket with a Powerlet type connector. Mounting options are plentiful as well. I would advise you to take your time on this, as it is a fairly sizable investment in cost and time.

Some questions to consider in advance?

1. Have you used one of these systems before? The learning curve for a GPS is steep. Will you use this trip to sort out how to use the device? Do you have enough time to sort out the mounting and the use before your trip. A RAM type mount is a nice way to set up a GPS. Obviously, you don't want it to interfere with switches, gauges, or steering.

2. Will you be using the device on your GS only, or moving it to other bikes or your car? As you will find, the accessories for these devices can get quite spendy. A previous Zumo 550 I had, came with both a bike and car mounting kit. My Garmin 660 came with bike hardware only.

3. Your GS has a dedicated "switched" wire which currently dead-ends at the battery. If you purchase a dedicated cable from BMW, you can then power your GPS without worry of draining your battery. It will power up when you fire the bike, and automatically shut off when you turn off the key. As Octupi said, or you can power directly to the battery to always have it charge, or use the powerlet accessory socket.

Whatever you decide, I would still carry along paper maps. I have never found a GPS to be a complete substitute for a good map.

[N4HHE]

I do not know for the TT, but the motorcycle mounts of the Zümo's do not have a connector, only +/- 12 V (red / black) wires. You need to connect these wires to a specific connector for using the socket on the bike (called "Powerlet", "Hella" or "BMW" connector), it's not the same one as for the cigarette lighter in a car....

Zumo most certainly does have full electrical connections for power and all audio input/output including USB. My 595 came with two mounts, one for motorcycle with everything, one for automobile with nothing but power.

[sweatmark]

Have you considered the option of dedicated smart phone GPS app?
I have a dedicated motorcycle GPS (old Garmin StreetPilot 2730 aka BMW Navigator III) but now use the Garmin app and iPhone exclusively for both car and motorcycle travel.
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/on-t...prod98479.html
Garmin app was not cheap when app + maps cost is considered, but the convenience of combining off-network GPS functions with ever-present phone has value for road trip simplicity.
There are better & less expensive GPS app options that provide the same functions: onboard maps for use without data network connection, trip planning, automatic routing with voice prompt.

[Octupi]

One thing to be careful when using your phone is heat. Direct sunlight on the phone for extended periods of time will play havoc w/ the batteries and other internals as they're not meant to be out like that and also wet weather can cause problems as well.
I've used both but I prefer the dedicated GPS for the mentioned reasons. It rains I just keep on riding, no special cases needed.

[Octupi]

Some relevant information from Apple but it applies to Android phones as well:

When using the device or charging the battery, it is normal for it to get warm. The exterior of the device functions as a cooling surface that transfers heat from inside the device to the cooler air outside.

Higher ambient temperature conditions and activities that may cause the device to alter performance and behavior include:

Leaving the device in a car on a hot day.
Leaving the device in direct sunlight for an extended period of time.
Using certain features in hot conditions or direct sunlight for an extended period of time, such as GPS tracking or navigation in a car, or playing a graphics-intensive game.

If the interior temperature of the device exceeds the normal operating range, the device will protect its internal components by attempting to regulate its temperature. If this occurs, you may notice the following:

If the device exceeds a certain temperature threshold, it will present a temperature warning screen similar to this:

The device stops charging.
The display dims or goes black.
In navigation:
The device will present this alert and turn off the display: "Temperature: iPhone needs to cool down."
Navigation will continue to provide audible turn-by-turn directions. When approaching a turn, the display will illuminate to guide you through the turn.
To return the device to normal operation, press the Home Button and slide to unlock. If the device has cooled down enough, you can continue normal usage.
Cellular radios will enter a low-power state. The signal may weaken during this time.
The camera flash is temporarily disabled.

As a note, while running GPS on your phone it will naturally be hotter than normal. Then in the sun to compound it. I use WAZE on my Galaxy all the time in my car but I have a mount that places it in front of the AC vent and it stays ice cold that way.

[Carlos Fandango]

This might be of some interest

https://f800riders.org/forum/showthre...Tomtom+install

[Daboo]

I've been toying with the idea of using my Samsung Galaxy smartphone with the TomTom app instead of a dedicated GPS device. My trip last weekend to the Coeur d'Alene BMW MOA Getaway convinced me to get a dedicated device. Now I keep trying to decide which I want...TomTom Rider or Garmin 590LM. But my mind is made up to get the dedicated GPS, no matter which brand I go for.

Friday, I headed across the state to Coeur d'Alene using an old car GPS that has served me well in the past. Even with a sunshade, I couldn't read the screen much of the time. It was especially critical as I got to the destination and had to navigate the freeway interchanges and city streets. I couldn't see the GPS screen, and it doesn't have Bluetooth, so I couldn't hear the directions. As a result, I almost missed a freeway off-ramp and did miss a couple turns in town. Almost dropped the bike making a U-turn on a side street. If I had, the cost of the damaged plastic, could've easily been the cost of a GPS that would've kept me out of the situation.

On Saturday, a newfound friend and I took off on a several hour trip in the local area. I decided to set the car GPS up for the destination and set my smartphone app to the same with the same preferences. I figured the car GPS could give me the visuals, and the smartphone app would give me verbal directions. Didn't work. The car GPS told me to continue on this road for 27 miles. The smartphone app told me to only go 3 miles. What I couldn't tell, was the smartphone app was measuring to an intersection and I'd just continue on the same road.

On Sunday, I decided to just use the smartphone with the TomTom app. The app worked great. Loved it. However...about 15 minutes along the freeway and I hit a large bump. The smartphone decided I had turned it upside down and flipped the screen. The only way to really fix that, was to stop...which I didn't want to do. I turned the screen off and on again...and this time the screen was in portrait mode while the smartphone was in landscape orientation. Since I wasn't going to stop (I knew the road), I lived with this for the next 100 miles till I stopped for gas. The point is that if I didn't know the road, I'd have to stop. Imagine doing this with your buddies behind you, traffic all around, and you needing to find a place large enough to stop for you and them. It's a recipe for disaster.

TomTom is the best seller in Europe I believe. Garmin has the most market share in the USA. Frankly, they seem to be a toss-up. The TomTom Rider has a smaller screen size, but they seem to do a lot with the screen real estate. You can pick up a refurbished Garmin 590LM for only a few pounds more than a TomTom Rider and get a 5 inch screen. Unless I'm mistaken, getting traffic updates on the TomTom through your smartphone is a $20 annual fee. It's a one-time fee with Garmin. Both models offer the ability to get a secure mounting option giving you some piece of mind when you stop for a bite to eat and leave the GPS on the bike.

Have you thought about getting Bluetooth headsets also? It's really convenient to hear the guidance in your helmet...but it would also be convenient to let the others behind you know what's going on. It adds to the cost of your trip, but may make it far more enjoyable and will have uses when you get back home again.

Chris

[5ft2]

I've been using my iPhone and the Tom-Tom app for a couple of years now. Which have included two 9000 km trips. I use a lifeproof frë case and mount with no problems. It works flawlessly in all weather including up to 6 hours of riding through torrential rains with no leaks.

The only time it shut down was when we were cruising the Vegas strip and the temperatures were registering 50 deg C on the bike temp gauge.

I use my battery tender and a usb adaptor, then rain a charging cable to the phone mount. I tuck the extra cable out if the way ind r plastic bits and It works for me.

I don't notice any problems with my battery maintaining a charge under normal conditions. It's an iPhone 5S.

[wildfowler]

Thanks for all the responses. I spoke to a colleague who suggested as some of you have done so already to get the app for my android phone. He recommended co-pilot. This together with a some RAM mount fittings ( I think I need a grip and Mount and a Ball fitting in all) would cost considerably cheaper than a GPS but I guess there are pro's and con's to both. As I don't go away very often( this is my tour in about 4 years) I may look to the app on my phone options. I believe I can get the European maps for £20. I will need to see whether I need to plan the routes in advance etc and whether I can use it without using the mobile data as if I need to then it would be pointless. I will keep you posted on which options I go for .

[FrankV]

Living in the UK, I think you will also need some weather protection, like a waterproof case or something similar.

[Daboo]

If you look on Amazon, you'll see many "waterproof" cases. Look for one with the ability to still plug in the phone for power. Not all have that provision.

I'll put in a plug for Tomtom's app. It seems to have many of the same features, of the Rider GPS unit like Winding Roads. Cost is minimal, and you can try it out for 50 miles at no cost, I was coming back across Snoqualmie Pass on Sunday when the traffic went from 65 mph to a complete stop. Just as I stopped, I got a traffic update telling me what the cause was, how far the backup was, and how long. Nice!

Chris

[Carlos Fandango]

Co pilot is a brilliant app. I have installed on my iPhone and as I have sat nav as a factory extra in my car I mainly use it when I hire a car on holiday. It worked brilliantly in California this year.

However phones as sat nav on bikes have IMO far too many drawbacks, they're inherently fragile, not waterproof and can overheat, so a dedicated bike sat nav is the way to go. Best feature is the powered mount just slip on the sat nav and ready to go.

Even works on a Fireblade!

[TelemarkTumalo]

Don't know about the OP's area, but in the wild-wild West of the USA, there are many places where there is just no cell service. GPS is the way to go here.

[Daboo]

The cell phone's GPS signal will still work without cell service. You just need to download the maps while in reach of cell service or wi-fi.

Chris

[wildfowler]

Hi Thanks again for all the responses. I done a trial run last night using my Samsung s6 with the co pilot app. Though I was driving in the car. My initial thoughts are that ir gets quite hot and also a slight touch can cause the unit to get into closed screen mode.

I am thinking down the route of a Mounted TomTom though I will not looks to hardwire it as my bike is sat out on the road to all the elements and also people walking by most days as I no longer have secure parking at work. When it is at home it is safe enough. So I would look to power the unit using the powerlet and that way I just take it off when not in use. I used the bike nearly everyday but I wont be using the sat nav very often as there is not a need to. I do have a tomtom for the car so have good experience using one.

[Snowy]

I have a TT rider V5 GPS, works a treat, more than I can say for the Rider400 when it rains! Believe there a 410 coming soon that should have this sorted!
On my F700GS, went for a Hella plug / USB adapter, and an ultimate addon bracket and USB cradle, so no TT cradle permanently on, same USB that you'd use for PC / MAC, just had two days in Wales and worked a treat, all parts on fleaBay!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3616230828...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1615987128...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1615987128...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Beauty of the ultimateaddon system is that you just change the cradle for whatever you need to fit, works for me!
Audio through a Cardo BT headset, all good.

[FrankV]

As far as I know, no hardware changes for the TT Rider 410, compared to the Rider 400.

[Daboo]

I bought a refurbished Garmin 590 LM last night from Factory Outlet Store, Their sale with Free Shipping is only good through today. There will probably be another sale in a month or so, but I decided not to take a chance. I also noticed Revzilla has the 590 on closeout, so I suspect the availabity of that model might become scarce over time. It is really close to the far more expensive 595 LM and at quite a discount ($519) when you buy a refurbished unit with the full Garmin warranty.

I would never leave a GPS on a bike overnight, but I do want a way to secure it for those times like when you fill up with gas and walk inside to pay. I noticed a YouTube video where someone used a small padlock to lock the Garmin mount, instead of one of the more expensive devices. And there are two locking knobs for the RAM mount arms. They won't stop a determined thief, but will suffice for the times you need to step away briefly.

Chris

Edit: The "sale" seems like it extends day for day. It's still the best price I could find.

[N4HHE]

I simply push the button on my 595's mount and slip it in my pocket.

[Carlos Fandango]

The locking knobs for the ram mount are huge and ugly. I use a locking bolt from Telferiser here in the UK







The powered cradle can just stay securely on the bike

[FrankV]

My cradle (Garmin 590) stays on the bike, no lock. Taking it away would mean also cutting the cable boom which makes it very unattractive IMHO.
Of course, the GPS itself is taken off the bike everytime, fits into the topcase, tankbag or just a pocket of my jacket.

[wildfowler]

Hi Gang,

I took the plunge and ordered a TomTom Rider 400today. Due for delivery tomorrow. Also purchased a Hella USB adaptor so will be able to power it using the bike power socket. Not sure what the standard mounting kit is going to be like so will see if it is suitable. If not I may look to get an alternative. I know what I am going to be doing this weekend

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. Really helped me.

[Carlos Fandango]

Hi Gang,

I took the plunge and ordered a TomTom Rider 400today. Due for delivery tomorrow. Also purchased a Hella USB adaptor so will be able to power it using the bike power socket. Not sure what the standard mounting kit is going to be like so will see if it is suitable. If not I may look to get an alternative. I know what I am going to be doing this weekend

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. Really helped me.

You'll get a powered mount with it, so no need for the USB power cable.

You can get one of these leads from your dealer or Nippy Normans



Solder the TomTom power cable to it and it plugs into a dedicated GPS switched power supply which can be found taped to the right hand side of the battery, simples!

[wildfowler]

Having now installed the Mount etc. Using the USB to power it is a bit clunky I would like to wire it up but not having dealt with bike electrics I am a bit cautious. Does the F700GS have a GPS switch next to the battery?

The cable above has three wires. How would I wire it to my tomtom lead? any help appreciated or pics

regards

[Carlos Fandango]

Having now installed the Mount etc. Using the USB to power it is a bit clunky I would like to wire it up but not having dealt with bike electrics I am a bit cautious. Does the F700GS have a GPS switch next to the battery?

The cable above has three wires. How would I wire it to my tomtom lead? any help appreciated or pics

regards

You'll only need two of the wires (instructions come with it) your 700 will have lead taped to the RHS of the battery

[wildfowler]

I have ordered a cable from NippyNormans, Nice little job for me next weekend

[Cptab]

Make it easier on yourself and alternative to soldering -- Posi-connectors take only a couple of minutes to attach.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wildfowler]

Hi do you have a link for these "Posi-connectors" where I can source.

[ST404]

Simon you can get them on either eBay.uk or Amazon.uk

You will wonder how you ever managed without them, especially with the thin BMW wiring

[Carlos Fandango]

Or find a local auto electrician to solder and heat shrink it for you. Won't cost much

[Snowy]

Just saw this on the UKGSer forum............

I'll see if I can shed a little light on the connector. The connector number is X9349, for optional accessories. The connector has three wires:

(1) Brown = ground
(2) Blue/Green = Speed Pulse
(3) Red/White = 12V

So GPS lead to brown for ground and live to Red/White.
As I use my GPS on both my GTR1400 (aka Concours) and my F700GS, the TT cradle stays on the GTR, and I use USB on handlebars and aftermarket (Ultimate Addons) holder on the handlebars of the BM, beauty is there are so many other useful carriers that fit the handlebar clamp.

[Carlos Fandango]

Just saw this on the UKGSer forum............

I'll see if I can shed a little light on the connector. The connector number is X9349, for optional accessories. The connector has three wires:

(1) Brown = ground
(2) Blue/Green = Speed Pulse
(3) Red/White = 12V

So GPS lead to brown for ground and live to Red/White.
As I use my GPS on both my GTR1400 (aka Concours) and my F700GS, the TT cradle stays on the GTR, and I use USB on handlebars and aftermarket (Ultimate Addons) holder on the handlebars of the BM, beauty is there are so many other useful carriers that fit the handlebar clamp.

From memory that sounds right, I just cut the speed pulse wire short and taped it up.

Before I sold my ST I had the Ultimate Addons passive mount on my "Blade, worked very well.

[wildfowler]

OK

So the BMW cable should be here tomorrow. I will solder that cable to the tomtom cable. My next question is from your experiences where would be best place to chase the cable considering I have the mount on the handlebars so there needs to be a fair bit of allowance in the cable given the handlebar movement. When I get back I plan to research a more suitable frame to fit it onto. In the meantime any suggestions welcomed.

[Carlos Fandango]

I'm pretty sure I cable tied the TomTom power lead to the wiring loom which leads to the bars.

Just check it doesn't rub anywhere and the bars move freely from side to side.

[wildfowler]

ok received my cable today from NippyNormans. Soldered it to the GPS cable. Took off the "tank" cover and to my surprise the GPS connector is sitting in a purpose made holder on top of the battery. Not down the side as some have experienced. Maybe the F800GS is different to the F700GS or maybe this is only on later models?

See picture


Anyway all connected and working so I am happy. The cable is very long considering it doesn't have far to travel. Something for consideration when I setup at weekend

[Carlos Fandango]

There is a lot of cable, that's so you can run it from the handlebars to a battery under the seat on a regular bike. On the F series it's far too long!

[wildfowler]

All sorted. Thanks everyone for the tips and help with getting that done. Roll on Friday then its France/Germany/Holland and Belgium. Well that's the plan anyway. Germany is sorted. After that will be worked out on Evening of day 1 Will be my first decent ride in about 5 years even though I use the bike daily

[Norfolk UK]

Roll on Friday then its France/Germany/Holland and Belgium.

Have a good trip

Ian