14,600 km trip on a Zero SR/F across the EU on a electric motorcycle

**Richard230** · 10-08-21

Here is a link to a short illustrated summary of a trip by a fellow who rode his Zero SR/F a distance of 14,600 km through 15 European countries. During that trip he had to recharge 160 times at a cost of 350 Euros. The only failure that he had on his Zero was a dead on-board charger, a common failure on all models of Zeros. Fortunately for him he owned a "premium" model that comes with three chargers, so he was able to continue his trip home. It just took a little longer: https://thepack.news/who-said-you-ca...ebastian-goes/

**Daboo** · 10-08-21

If I did the math correctly, that means he was recharging every 56.7 miles.

14,600 km equals 9072 miles. 9072 miles / 160 charges = 56.7 miles per charge. On some roads, that would mean recharging every hour.

Chris

**Richard230** · 10-08-21

Originally Posted by Daboo

If I did the math correctly, that means he was recharging every 56.7 miles.

14,600 km equals 9072 miles. 9072 miles / 160 charges = 56.7 miles per charge. On some roads, that would mean recharging every hour.

Chris

Sounds about right. And 350 Euros equals $415 USD the last time I checked the exchange rate.

**Daboo** · 10-08-21

Just seems like he was constantly stopping and not getting anywhere.

The pictures made it look like he couldn't just leave the bike plugged in and play tourist. So his stopping every hour to get recharged were on top of any stops to take pictures and take in the sights.

I guess that explains why it took him 43 days.

**notacop** · 10-09-21

Interesting that he found inoperable recharging stations and failures of his own equipment. Getting free charges at Hostels and hotels doesn't give the comparable costs of the trip.
Yes you can travel like that but it's not as convenient as a gas powered cycle.

**Richard230** · 10-09-21

Originally Posted by notacop

Interesting that he found inoperable recharging stations and failures of his own equipment. Getting free charges at Hostels and hotels doesn't give the comparable costs of the trip.
Yes you can travel like that but it's not as convenient as a gas powered cycle.

Electric motorcycle riders seem to feel that riding their bikes long distances from charging station to charging station in the hopes that they will be working when they arrive and not occupied by a Bolt or similar vehicle while the owner is at the nearby theater watching the latest Bond movie is part of the adventure.

**Lag** · 10-09-21

I think "E" makes way less sense for motorcycles then it does for cars,,. Where have you ever seen a ICE bike trip where the focus of the journey is on filling stops,,. Maybe an electric scooter for inner city commute's might work but anything that involves adventure touring of any sort just would be fraught with range anxiety, its easy enough to have issues with a 300 Km range ICE with service every 100 kms,,.

The Zero bike in the thread link is a real looker and so is the attached Black Forest ADV, it ticks many of the boxes for features and performance however I've read where in actual use the things range drops off rapidly when you start to goose it, so now your sitting in the middle of no where looking for a tow? Doesn't work for most ADV'ers,,!!

https://advrider.com/zero-unveils-20...dventure-bike/

**Daboo** · 10-09-21

And if you're sitting in the middle of nowhere and out of "fuel", with an ICE, you can get gas from a passerby and be on your way in 5 minutes. With an electric vehicle...the longest extension cord in the world won't help...especially in California where the area might be in a brown-out.

I plan my rides based on scenery and fun roads. I don't plan for where I will spend an hour or more topping up my battery.

**BoxerBits** · 10-09-21

Originally Posted by Daboo

And if you're sitting in the middle of nowhere and out of "fuel", with an ICE, you can get gas from a passerby and be on your way in 5 minutes. With an electric vehicle...the longest extension cord in the world won't help...

Didn't some have a similar rational when the first ICE vehicles started to replace horse drawn vehicles?

Following this train of thought, why bother with petrol engines, you'd never be too far away from a bag of oats and the excrement is a wonderful fertilizer for your garden!
[emoji90]

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**Daboo** · 10-09-21

Yeah but...the place that is pushing the most for electric vehicles, has probably the worst electrical infrastructure in the entire USA.

Chris

**Richard230** · 10-09-21

Originally Posted by BoxerBits

Didn't some have a similar rational when the first ICE vehicles started to replace horse drawn vehicles?

Following this train of thought, why bother with petrol engines, you'd never be too far away from a bag of oats and the excrement is a wonderful fertilizer for your garden!
[emoji90]

Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using Tapatalk

That is a good point, although it is my understanding that many hardware stores at the time sold gasoline in gallon cans and there were a lot more hardware stores around back then now. Apparently it was used for cleaning stuff.

At least electric vehicles don't leave road apples on the pavement and you don't have to worry about getting a heart attack while applying "light pedal assist" while going up a hill that the engine couldn't climb by itself.

Personally, I start to get nervous and slow down when my SOC (state of charge) gets down to 25%. Plus, I try to avoid freeway travel as high speeds really suck the juice out of the battery pack.

**BoxerBits** · 10-09-21

Have to wonder what the MPG of a model T was and associated range anxiety?

If it was sold in gallon cans they couldn't have stocked too much in each pharmacy.

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**Daboo** · 10-09-21

Originally Posted by Richard230

T...

Personally, I start to get nervous and slow down when my SOC (state of charge) gets down to 25%. Plus, I try to avoid freeway travel as high speeds really suck the juice out of the battery pack.

My dentist has confessed that he gets "range anxiety" at times with his Tesla.

**BoxerBits** · 10-09-21

Originally Posted by Daboo

My dentist has confessed that he gets "range anxiety" at times with his Tesla.

Nothing new then. Current owners of electric cars have range anxiety while early adopters of ICE vehicles suffered the same!

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**MGD109** · 10-10-21

Cheap though, by my maths with UK fuel cost you'd need to get over 180 miles to the gallon to do that trip for the same cost.

I'm absolutely confident the infrastructure will arrive and much faster than we may think.

**BoxerBits** · 10-10-21

Think you're right with the infrastructure, will take time but it's been noticeable the difference over the last 12 months.

As far as current UK cost of fuel, I noticed it at a fraction under £1.60 a liter heading back to the "high peaks" of Cambridgeshire from Hendon last night.(Norm of late near to home being around £1.30 a liter.)

For easy comparison that would be over 8 US dollars per US gallon. (E&OE)

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**Daboo** · 10-10-21

Originally Posted by MGD109

Cheap though, by my maths with UK fuel cost you'd need to get over 180 miles to the gallon to do that trip for the same cost.

Cheap? Only, if you only consider fuel.

How much time was spent sitting in a parking lot waiting for the bike to charge?

How many extra hotel bills did it cost?

And how many extra meals did he eat?

**MGD109** · 10-10-21

Originally Posted by Daboo

Cheap? Only, if you only consider fuel.

...........

Yes was just considering fuel, it's the first time I've read anything about charge cost against distance travelled on an electric motorbike was wondering what the difference in cost would be.

Originally Posted by Daboo

........

How much time was spent sitting in a parking lot waiting for the bike to charge?

How many extra hotel bills did it cost?

And how many extra meals did he eat?

A bit irrelevant really, this was a Road Trip/Adventure/Holiday/Logistical Experiment whatever you want to call it not an exercise in getting from A to B in the most efficient (money or time) method possible.

I've done Road Trips by Land Rover, motorcycle and bicycle (and on foot but no roads just footpaths) you could argue that every time the motorbike would have completed the journey in the quickest time and saved money (not quite true because I used to sleep in the back of the Land Rover so no accommodation costs) but it would be missing the point entirely.

**N4HHE** · 10-10-21

Originally Posted by Daboo

And if you're sitting in the middle of nowhere and out of "fuel", with an ICE, you can get gas from a passerby and be on your way in 5 minutes. With an electric vehicle...the longest extension cord in the world won't help...especially in California where the area might be in a brown-out.

Charge (not recharge) with a rope.

Tie on to the other vehicle and be towed. Either to a charge site or let regeneration do the work.

**BoxerBits** · 10-10-21

Originally Posted by Daboo

Cheap? Only, if you only consider fuel.

How much time was spent sitting in a parking lot waiting for the bike to charge?

How many extra hotel bills did it cost?

And how many extra meals did he eat?

Might just be me but I like to make my adventures last as long as possible. It's supposed to be a holiday and not a race after all.

But if it supports your argument then I'm happy. Did you consider the savings you'd make in ware to your britches in not getting your leg over so often?

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**Daboo** · 10-10-21

Originally Posted by BoxerBits

Might just be me but I like to make my adventures last as long as possible. It's supposed to be a holiday and not a race after all...

There's a term I learned in Economics class called "opportunity cost". Wikipedia says, "In microeconomic theory, the opportunity cost of a particular activity option is the loss of value or benefit that would be incurred by engaging in that activity, relative to engaging in an alternative activity offering a higher return in value or benefit."

In this case, it is where you spend your time.

Granted the article was about traveling on an electric motorcycle, but it seems like he spent a lot of time sitting around in parking lots, waiting to charge the bike.

The opportunity cost in this case is the sights and things he missed. Yes, he spent 43 days on the road and that would be wonderful. But what did he miss because the place he could've gone to...closed while he was charging his bike? What did he miss because couldn't get to it with his range? He's averaging a charge every 56 miles. That's not much, and if what you want to get to is 35 miles off the main road where the charge points are, he'd have to scratch that off his list of things to see and do...because the round trip to get back to a charger would be 70 miles.

If you've ever looked at my ride reports, you'll see I like to stay off the freeways and hit the side roads...and stop to smell the roses. I purposely will look for how I can maximize my riding experience.

And I don't think sitting in a parking lot, is a way to maximize my riding experience.

**BoxerBits** · 10-10-21

Brings to mind a term for a dissertation that's not concise and relevant.

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**CagivaRider** · 10-13-21

I have both a Zero SR and a F800GT. I just got back from a 5400 mile trip from Lynnwood WA to Austin TX for the MotoGP. I took the BMW

**DJ123** · 10-14-21

I would like to see how that journey compares, if he re-did it on an ICE Motorcycle. What else he would have visited, seen and enjoyed in that time period.

Like others have said, i could not see that being enjoyable simply charging station to charging station and then hanging around for an hour. And at a range of 60ish miles thats 3 hours per tank of fuel you'd have spent on the ST.

Until battery technology is better an EV bike doesn't make sense for Touring as the weight penalty (plus other negatives) are too great for a Motorcycle. Round town i can see the appeal, especially if you're able to charge it at Work/Home.

**Richard230** · 10-14-21

Originally Posted by DJ123

I would like to see how that journey compares, if he re-did it on an ICE Motorcycle. What else he would have visited, seen and enjoyed in that time period.

Like others have said, i could not see that being enjoyable simply charging station to charging station and then hanging around for an hour. And at a range of 60ish miles thats 3 hours per tank of fuel you'd have spent on the ST.

Until battery technology is better an EV bike doesn't make sense for Touring as the weight penalty (plus other negatives) are too great for a Motorcycle. Round town i can see the appeal, especially if you're able to charge it at Work/Home.

I don't dare express that opinion on the Electric Motorcycle Forum.

Many of the enthusiasts who post there claim to be hard core electric motorcycle travelers and are willing to put up with a lot of (to me) inconvenience to use their EVs for touring instead of just commuting - which is what I think they do best.

**Lag** · 10-14-21

Originally Posted by Richard230

I don't dare express that opinion on the Electric Motorcycle Forum.

One thing for sure is people like to talk there "book",,,, be it there portfolio, there hood or there ride,,. No different when it comes to BMW,,.

You will know e-bikes have arrived when the BIG's start to make them, there is an application for the currently available technology as a form commuter transport but not with the ridiculous HP to WT ratios that we have come to enjoy?,.

**CagivaRider** · 10-20-21

Don't confuse range with performance. My Zero blows the doors off my F800GT; At least for the first 90 miles

**Daboo** · 10-20-21

Originally Posted by CagivaRider

Don't confuse range with performance. My Zero blows the doors off my F800GT; At least for the first 90 miles

Hah! I'll race you to Leavenworth. Oktoberfest is over, but I'll bet they still have some beer available. If you win, I'll buy you a beer.

Google Maps says it is 108 miles.

That last 18 miles where you're pushing your Zero will give me a chance to catch up.

If you get too tired, I'll let you ride bitch.

**CagivaRider** · 10-20-21

Ouch - 108 miles from here - You win! I hope your bike goes faster than 110, which is the max my Zero is set to. Next year I will race to Spokane on my Damon. They claim a 20 minute recharge sufficient to make the last 50 miles. In the mean time I am happy with the BMW for those longer trips.

Some quick specs:
HP: BMW 90, Zero 70, my ordered Damon Hypersport 200
Torque: BMW 63, Zero 116, Damon 173
Weight: BMW 470, Zero 414. Damon 440
Range: BMW 250+, Zero 90+, Damon 200-
0-60: BMW 3.6?, Zero 3.3, Damon <3
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...AA&FORM=VDQVAP

**Daboo** · 10-20-21

Originally Posted by CagivaRider

Ouch - 108 miles from here - You win! I hope your bike goes faster than 110, which is the max my Zero is set to. Next year I will race to Spokane on my Damon. They claim a 20 minute recharge sufficient to make the last 50 miles. In the mean time I am happy with the BMW for those longer trips.

Actually, I do believe that it exceeded that speed...on a closed course with a professional rider.

FWIW, a few years ago, the Michigan State Police tested the F800GT, along with some other bikes, for use in it's police forces. The F800GT was clocked at 137 mph.

Chris

**Lighning** · 10-21-21

137 is pretty good and actually faster than I even rode as a yout! I just remembered this morning that I have seen BMW F800GT police bikes in my white in San Diego county before.
Owing an electric VW I think the only way an electric motorcycle makes sense is if it is a big cruiser, preferably with a trailer. You need to find some place for hundreds of pounds of batteries down low to make it practical.

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